Talk:Hosts/Post 51107411

Hosts files do plenty of things for a PC's security, as APK pointed out in post 51107411 on Slashdot. APK's main 16 points are quoted here for reference:


 * 1) Protect vs. malicious sites (past ads)
 * 2) Protect vs. fastflux botnets + stop C&C talk
 * 3) Protect vs. dyndns botnets + stop C&C talk
 * 4) Protect vs. DGA botnets + stop C&C talk
 * 5) Protect vs. downed DNS (4 reliability)
 * 6) Protect vs. poisoned dns
 * 7) Protect vs. trackers
 * 8) Protect vs. spam
 * 9) Protect vs. phishing
 * 10) Protect vs. caps
 * 11) Get by dns blocks
 * 12) Keep off dns request logs
 * 13) Speed up surfing by adblocks & hardcoded favs
 * 14) Work on anything webbound multiplatform.
 * 15) Ez data control
 * 16) Block ads better than addons more efficiently

APK further claims:
 * Browser-based content blocking extensions are "inferior, inefficient, and redundant" (IF NOT SOLD-OUT TO ADVERTISERS to not do their job fully allowing ads which have infected users time & again for a decade++, now more than ever due to openbid ad networks).
 * Yahoo's ClarityRay service (not exclusive to Yahoo alone - apk edit) can detect extensions and block their users' access to ClarityRay clients' sites, but ClarityRay can't detect a hosts file.
 * BlockIQ can do the same as ClarityRay also (doesn't affect hosts by detecting & blocking it)
 * PageFair can do the same as ClarityRay also (doesn't affect hosts by detecting & blocking it)
 * Slower less CPU serviced usermode layered on over browsers (increasing messagepassing) Extensions use more RAM than the kernelmode IP stack's hosts file processor.
 * Slower less CPU serviced usermode layered on over browsers (increasing messagepassing) Extensions use more CPU than the kernelmode IP stack's hosts file processor, especially message-passing between the kernel and user processes, compared to one single call into the kernel to resolve a domain. Thus a hosts file does far more with less resources and faster due to higher cpu servicing.
 * As a native part of the IP stack in the kernelmode level of operations you already use, the hosts file once populated by APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit cuts through all the layers of system-wide 3rd party security wares & software firewalls (which require a layered on filtering driver, hosts do not).

Put a single colon at the start of your post to indent it, and put   at the end to sign your post. For example:
 * Hosts files protect against  attacks.
 * Yes. It protects your map app from attacks on the server hosting observations of  movements. ~

Malware

 * Hosts files protect against malware sites, botnet C&C servers, spam/phish malicious payloads, trackers & more - not just ads.
 * If hosts do, so does uBlock Origin. See below. --DK

users spend most of their time online redirect poisoning attacks?) NO - but Hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock stop DNS redirect poisoning attacks? NO - but Hosts can.
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock speed you up 2 ways (not just adblocking but also hardcoded LOCAL cached in RAM ip address resolution of favorite sites where
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock get you past a DNS block of a site? NO - Hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock use less memory, cpu, & other forms of I/O (i.e. messagepassing overheads browser addons pile on, slowing them)? NO - hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock operate in faster/more cpu serviced kernelmode? NO - Hosts operate in kernelmode & it's FAR faster than usermode!
 * Let me sum up APK's position on extensions. First, ClarityRay can somehow (via native webbrowser methods in browsers themselves) detect UBO through browser APIs, but not hosts. Second, UBO and other browser add-ons use far more CPU and RAM than the kernel's hosts file processor does, making them inefficient. Lag when using several extensions concurrently is a known issue in Firefox. Besides, a lot of these extensions use regular expressions for configuration, which can be harder for an end user to learn than the whitespace-delimited format of hosts. --Tepples (talk) 23:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * APK EDIT: ANY PROOFS OF MY CLAIMS PER TEPPLES' EDITS ABOVE OF MY WORDS ARE AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST - just ask: I will supply them here or elsewhere in this article upon request.


 * Hosts files protect against fast flux botnets and stop their communication with C&C.
 * Hosts can, but APK's program will not do this with the default settings. Details under "APK's program is worth using" below --DK
 * THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE - Blocking botnet C&C servers IS specifically what my program is geared for gathering data for EXACTLY that (& vs. other threats online as well as giving you more speed by placing your favorite sites @ the top of hosts for immediate resolution, faster than calling out to remote DNS which may be downed, or redirect poisoned (both happen quite a lot). Hosts also speed up browsing using your favorite sites you give it and overcome DNS issues, both of which addons cannot touch or do.
 * The DEFAULT SITES it uses are already filtered vs. false positives (especially the update ones from hpHosts, the FULL LIST has false positives which is what hpHosts' removal lists are for - part of which my false positives filter filters against as well in my program IF you choose to use the FULL model there - however, the full list may also contain STALE OUT OF DATE sites which the removal lists @ hpHosts list too - hence, using the defaults (all full files EXCEPT hpHosts) & you get ABSOLUTELY CURRENT DATA vs. threats of many kinds online that way!) - use the hpHosts manually & merge it IF you wish, but be aware of the risk noted (which my filters vs. false positives SHOULD clear most of)... apk


 * Hosts files protect against dynamic DNS botnets and stop their communication with C&C.
 * Hosts can, but APK's program will not do this with the default settings. Details under "APK's program is worth using" below --DK
 * Again, that is an OUTRIGHT LIE - there are no 'default settings' in my program that do that unlike say, AlmostALLAdsBlocked (which IS crippled by default and MOST USERS WILL NOT CHANGE THAT & advertisers know it, since they were paid off to NOT block all ads, having sold out to advertisers) AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER!
 * See what I wrote above about default sites vs. the full list --APK


 * Hosts files protect against botnets using a domain generation algorithm (DGA) and stop their communication with C&C.
 * Explanation needed. In order to block domains generated via an algorithm (as per the Wikipedia article) AFAIK the hosts files would need to be updated with a list of the "bad" domains for the day. The lists used by APK don't appear to update frequently enough for this to be the case! -- DK
 * IF ANY host-domain name is blocked by placing 0.0.0.0 in front of it, it is blocked regardless of HOW it is generated. I imported lists of such names even DGA generated as they are put out and yes, they are blocked.
 * It's done for users already. MANY OF THE 10 reputable sources in the security community supply that data. It's broken out into individual categories at hpHosts. --APK
 * Okay, I missed that, but checking what lists APK uses brings up an anomaly: The hpHosts "Partial" list is used (for updates), but the main list is the Adblocking list, meaning you don't get the full protection obtained by the main list. I have a good idea as to why as well - APK's software seems to be choking on the main list (more under "APK's file is worth using", below) --DK
 * Yes, you screwed up, and hugely above it as well on UBlock above and even moreso below which I validly technically correct you on repeatedly - prove otherwise, I look forward to it, as it only proves my points all the moreso on hosts superiority to other inferior redundant inefficient methods...apk
 * It is NOT "choking": YOU ADMIT IT WORKS BELOW (while running it on a machine from more than a decade ago it seems & a very SLOW one apparently) the data is in the SAME FORMAT - but larger - it's just taking longer DUE TO THAT - THE HOURGLASS CURSOR INDICATES IT AS DOES ITS STATUS BARS SAYING IT'S STILL WORKING. MORE ON THAT BELOW IN THE SECTION STATING "THERE'S 2 WAYS TO USE IT" (LIKE ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS ARE SETUP IN FACT, OLD POSSIBLY STALE DATA VS. ABSOLUTELY CURRENT DATA (HIGH POWER MODE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION VS. NORMAL MODE LIKE YOU SEE IN ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS)). --APK
 * See what I wrote above about default sites (hpHosts' FULL hosts file has stale or false positives data in it @ times, its removal lists prove that) vs. the full list. --APK


 * Hosts files protect against spam.
 * APK clarified that this refers to payload sites, not the mails themselves. --Tepples (talk) 00:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * If hosts do, so does uBlock Origin. See below. --DK

users spend most of their time online redirect poisoning attacks?) NO - but Hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock stop DNS redirect poisoning attacks? NO - but Hosts can.
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock speed you up 2 ways (not just adblocking but also hardcoded LOCAL cached in RAM ip address resolution of favorite sites where
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock get you past a DNS block of a site? NO - Hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock use less memory, cpu, & other forms of I/O (i.e. messagepassing overheads browser addons pile on, slowing them)? NO - hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock operate in faster/more cpu serviced kernelmode? NO - Hosts operate in kernelmode & it's FAR faster than usermode!
 * Yeah, but using more RAM and CPU and more vulnerability to ClarityRay (now imitating hosts by using hosts data but unable to do DNS issues avoidance like hosts can). --Tepples (talk) 23:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Hosts files protect against phishing.
 * If hosts do, so does uBlock Origin. See below. --DK

users spend most of their time online redirect poisoning attacks?) NO - but Hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock stop DNS redirect poisoning attacks? NO - but Hosts can.
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock speed you up 2 ways (not just adblocking but also hardcoded LOCAL cached in RAM ip address resolution of favorite sites where
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock get you past a DNS block of a site? NO - Hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock use less memory, cpu, & other forms of I/O (i.e. messagepassing overheads browser addons pile on, slowing them)? NO - hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock operate in faster/more cpu serviced kernelmode? NO - Hosts operate in kernelmode & it's FAR faster than usermode!
 * Yeah, but using more RAM and CPU and more vulnerability to ClarityRay (now imitating hosts by using hosts data but unable to do DNS issues avoidance like hosts can).. --Tepples (talk) 23:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Hosts files protect against DNS redirect poisoning.
 * Hosts can, but APK's program will not do this with the default settings. Details under "APK's program is worth using" below --DK
 * See what I wrote above about default sites vs. the full list, and about not being crippled like AdBlock is. --APK

Tracking

 * Hosts files protect against tracking.
 * If hosts do, so does uBlock Origin. See below. --DK

users spend most of their time online redirect poisoning attacks?) NO - but Hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock stop DNS redirect poisoning attacks? NO - but Hosts can.
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock speed you up 2 ways (not just adblocking but also hardcoded LOCAL cached in RAM ip address resolution of favorite sites where
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock get you past a DNS block of a site? NO - Hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock use less memory, cpu, & other forms of I/O (i.e. messagepassing overheads browser addons pile on, slowing them)? NO - hosts do!
 * APK EDIT: Can UBlock operate in faster/more cpu serviced kernelmode? NO - Hosts operate in kernelmode & it's FAR faster than usermode!
 * Yeah, but using more RAM and CPU and more vulnerability to ClarityRay. --Tepples (talk) 23:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Hosts files protect against logging of your DNS requests.
 * It prevents the blocked hosts being logged, not all logging. The sites you actually want get logged. -amimojo
 * WRONG - your favorite sites at the top of hosts NOT ONLY INCREASE SPEED vs. remote DNS resolution return data, but also secure you vs. LOGGING ON DNS REQUEST LOGS (you fail) by AVOIDING DNS ALTOGETHER for favorite sites hardcoded @ the top of hsots, and increase site reliability avoiding possibly downed or dns poisoned DNS (of which 99.999% of ISP DNS servers are NOT PATCHED AGAINST mind you to this very day though a fix has existed for ages (OpenDNS which I use since I do not hardcode every site under the sun in hosts, ONLY my favorite sites where I spend a GOOD 95++% of my time online at mind you, does have it patched and it filters like hosts vs. threats, which both in combination compliment one another for in case one misses a filter vs. threats) --APK
 * WHICH IS MORE THAN BROWSER ADDONS CAN DO FOR MORE SPEED, SECURITY, RELIABILITY, AND ANONYMITY. FACE FACTS. HOSTS ARE SUPERIOR ON SO MANY FRONTS VS. BROWSER ADDONS OR EVEN DNS AND ROUTERS IT'S NOT FUNNY - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * The UK and US government's approach seems to be to log all traffic anyway - a lack of DNS records won't help in the slightest. --DK


 * NOT THE POINT, hosts DO unquestionably work to bypass DNS & ALL ITS SHORTCOMINGS and hosts compliment DNS + lighten their server loads via hardcoded favorite sites users enter into them @ the TOP of hosts files - which resolves FAR FASTER than calling out to remote dns and adds reliability vs. dns being redirect poisoned compromised or downed as I have already noted above... I've never said "hosts cure all" - NOTHING does, but hosts do MORE from 1 single file than ANY other "so-called 'solution'" does more efficiently on MANY levels (in resources usage and complexity + ease of use in data changes) --APK

Reliability

 * Hosts files provide a backup in case a site's DNS goes down for extra reliability.
 * Provided you have got the domain hard-coded into hosts to begin with... --DK
 * My program does that via reverse dns verification (against OpenDNS here which is patched vs. kaminsky redirect poisoning flaws, 99.999% of ISP DNS are not) & additions of those at the TOP OF HOSTS for utmost speed of resolution of those favorites where you spend a GOOD 95++% OR BETTER OF YOUR TIME ONLINE (something addons do NOT do, nor does HostsMan which you mention (which also does not have a 64-bit model and is dependent on others' work in SQLite which may go out of business possibly, probably not, but you never know AND with less moving parts dependencies OR room for EXPLOITATION or BUGS in it that may crop up).--APK


 * I have them that way for more speed & reliability DK - or are you just "conveniently omitting" those facts? Yes, obviously, and you're distorting UBlock's abilities (falsely in favor of UBlock which imitates hosts using hosts data now "suddenly", imitation being the sincerest form of flattery) which are FAR SHORT of hosts' abilities and UBlock's not NEARLY as efficient as hosts is.--APK


 * I think APK is trying to say APK Hosts File Engine can do that.
 * Hosts can, but APK's program will not do this with the default settings. Details under "APK's program is worth using" below --DK
 * See what I wrote above about default sites vs. the full list. --APK
 * The idea, as I understand it, is to start with the default list and then add a list of your favorite sites where you spend 95% of your time. --Tepples (talk) 23:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Also my program's NOT CRIPPLED by advertisers as AlmostALLAdsBlocked is to NOT block ads & especially botnets or other malware threat's payload delivery sites online - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --apk


 * Hosts files help get past DNS blocks imposed by an ISP or national censor.
 * Yes, fine - but rather pointless in the end, if you've got to bypass DNS blocks, these days you're normally requiring something like TOR or a VPN anyway as they will either be blocking the IP address as well or logging all traffic. --DK
 * You HAVE to concede that (for once, you're honest, once... not so honest above OR below) --APK
 * ... & YOU'RE AGAIN INEFFICIENTLY "bolting on 'MoAr'" which is an IDIOT'S MOVE when what you have already does more, better, & more efficiently in hosts... LESS IS MORE = GOOD ENGINEERING. --APK
 * Polis can certainly sympathize with the less-is-more principle. --Tepples (talk) 01:20, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * ADDONS DO NOTHING VS. DNS ISSUES IN SECURITY OR OVERHEADS DNS SERVERS LOCALLY HAVE IN COMPLEXITY, SECURITY ISSUES (WHICH HOSTS OVERCOME FOR REMOTE DNS SERVERS EVEN LIGHTENING THEIR LOADS DUE TO HARDCODED FAVORITES USERS PLACE AT THE TOP OF HOSTS FILES FOR MORE SPEED VS. REMOTE DNS AND RELIABILITY VS. DNS REDIRECT POISONINGS OR BEING DOWN), AND POWER USAGE WHICH IS GREATER ON DNS DUE TO MORE MOVING PARTS AND COMPLEXITY OVERHEADS. --APK

Performance

 * Hosts files protect against unwanted downloads of large files that use up your monthly data allowance.
 * So do all ad blockers, not really a point in favor of either solution --DK
 * Yeah, but using more RAM and CPU and more vulnerability to ClarityRay (UBlock now imitating hosts by using hosts data but unable to do DNS issues avoidance like hosts can).. --Tepples (talk) 23:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * A hosts file with a whitelist of your favorite sites at the top followed by a blacklist of known ad and bad sites speeds up surfing.
 * As long as the site stays at that address, if it changes you'll get 404 errors instead... --DK
 * Every time you build your host file using my program it reverse dns resolves your favorites - your point, as usual, is EASILY DEFEATED by "yours truly" & so you get FRESH updates of that everytime you use my program to build hosts (which should be done daily & it will gather the data automatically for you if you wish to do so). --APK


 * True, but you notice the 404 or Connection refused error and schedule that particular site for rebuilding in the next hosts refresh. That solves the problem unless a (legit) site is using fast flux/round robin load balancing. --Tepples (talk) 21:54, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The hosts file created using APK Hosts File Engine will handle 95 percent of hostname queries. For the other 5 percent, try this: In the Windows Registry, in, set  , one less than  . --APK
 * Hosts can, but APK's program will not do this with the default settings. Details under "APK's program is worth using" below --DK
 * DK - Defaults? First of all - There are none like crippled sold out browser addons have allowing ads (almostALLAdsBlocked) - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * The DEFAULT SITES it uses are already filtered vs. false positives (especially the update ones from hpHosts, the FULL LIST has false positives which is what hpHosts' removal lists are for - part of which my false positives filter filters against as well in my program IF you choose to use the FULL model there - however, the full list may also contain STALE OUT OF DATE sites which the removal lists @ hpHosts list too - hence, using the defaults (all full files EXCEPT hpHosts) & you get ABSOLUTELY CURRENT DATA vs. threats of many kinds online that way!) - use the hpHosts manually & merge it IF you wish, but be aware of the risk noted (which my filters vs. false positives SHOULD clear most of)... apk


 * Hosts files block ads more efficiently than browser extensions.
 * Define efficient. Less memory and overhead, but also lets through some ads that things like uBlock and Privacy Badger will kill. -amimojo
 * BY MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE IN CPU + RAM USE and MESSAGEPASSING OVERHEADS TOO! --APK
 * Hosts block FAR MORE THREATS then UBlock ever will (see enumerated list above nobody has ever validly technically disproven at /. and other sites online for years now mind you) - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK
 * The ONLY thing they MIGHT be able to do hosts can't is block ads served on the same site which IS NOT REALISTIC or PRACTICAL AT ALL which is why you don't SEE ADS SERVED ON THE SAME SITE - admen don't trust webmasters alleged hitcounts & I actually do NOT blame them... after all, I could get 1 click view of an ad served on the same site only & REPORT IT WAS 10 million or MORE, admen would not be able to verify it so they do NOT do it (not often if at all). HOSTS DO FAR MORE VS. MALICIOUS THREATS ONLINE ALSO AND PROTECT VS. DNS SECURITY ISSUES AND MORE WHICH ADDONS CANNOT TOUCH AT ALL - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK
 * I've nigh endlessly produced proofs of that vs. AdBlock, UBlock, etc. from reputable sources analysis. You seem to conveniently ignore that here don't you? Yes, no questions asked. Hosts are FAR BETTER on ram, cpu, & messagepassing overheads consumptions and HOSTS OPERATE IN FAR MORE CPU SERVICED KERNELMODE whereas addons are in less cpu serviced usermode with MORE MESSAGEPASSING OVERHEADS (which is why when you put in many addons into a browser it begins to SLOW up massively) - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * And while we're talking efficiency, I will note that APK's software states that it requires 10-15 minutes(!) to build its host file, using a good proportion of CPU time while doing so. There are certainly efficiency problems there. --DK
 * Only when it's building a NEW HOSTS FILE but it's not required to leave it resident (OR to run it as admin, which is the ONLY user entity that can request REALTIME cpu status, running as lesser users only gets HIGH, which eats less cpu)... hosts are unquestionably more efficient on all levels vs. any browser addon and hosts do FAR MORE with less complexity. The bottom line is the resultant hosts dataset produced not my program, and what hosts can do that adblock and other addons CANNOT, period... or nearly as well as efficiently - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * Perhaps the idea is that you build the blocking list while connected to cheap power and use it while connected to expensive power. For example, a desktop computer might have cheap power in the off-peak early morning and expensive power at the hottest part of the day when air conditioners are running. Or a laptop might have cheap power while charging and expensive power while running on batteries. --Tepples (talk) 21:54, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Addons usage is constant in browsers & consumes more (& yet does less) - again: the hosts output from my program is all you need, and the real bottom line for more speed, security, reliability & anonymity NOT MY PROGRAM CONSTANTLY RESIDENT processing (though if left resident it protects hosts above & beyond Windows' WFP/SFP vs. corruption of any kind) but that does not mean it is USING CPU AT HIGH RATES THEN (IT'S VERY LOW WHEN TRAYICON MINIMIZED IN FACT, & SET THUS) - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * The problem is requiring it to be done this way in the first place - a number of APK's points talk about hosts files being more efficient than browser extensions - may be true, but why quibble over milliseconds of CPU cycles saved when his software uses up minutes beforehand during the setup process! Efficiency in this case would be grabbing a pre-compiled file from a server, with the option to build your own if you want to. --DK


 * APK EDIT: I don't want the personal responsibility of running a website (they're all DDoS'able, & the folks who serve up ones that block miscreants get attacked by them regularly for blocking their malware machinations) - I run a business of my own and DON'T HAVE THE FREE TIME FOR IT first of all (it's primary to me - this is secondary), & secondly, the express purpose of creating APK Hosts File Engine was to EMPOWER others to do so themselves. Thus, I created this program for the GOOD OF OTHERS & THE ABSOLUTE GOOD ala Mr. Charlie Chaplin in his "Great Dictator" speech holding the VERY IDEALS I ESPOUSE + WHY www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLci5DoZqHU (have you done so, "Mr. Critic"? No) just so they can do the job themselves - want to do a job RIGHT? Do it yourself is my motto (as much as you can @ least)... &, least of all vs. false positives possibles work (which my program helps prevent from sites that don't post removal lists as Malwarebytes' hpHosts does) and my program does the work for those that don't by having a built-in false positives removal list I built alongside hpHosts & others in the security community to do so (preventing accidental blocking of sites that ought not be from others that don't do such lists for fp removals) & troubles that can result from hosting a hosts file site - yes, this happens. I avoid all that and rightfully so protecting myself from it. Nicest part is, ANY USER can easily edit out material in hosts using a text editor like notepad.exe themselves & FAST - try that with AlmostALLAdsBlocked or other inefficient slower redundant bloated crippled by default not doing their job browser addons regular expressions cpu hogging use - that's the province of coders, NOT regular end-users & difficult for them... not with hosts data though - it's EASY to update, no waiting out updates from addons makers either. It's a faster correction process ANYONE can understand & do, themselves, easily.


 * "May be true"? IT IS TRUE and you KNOW it! What proves this? That list of enumerated points above you CANNOT validly technically disprove above ALL else here. --APK


 * In his "less is more" philosophy, APK appears to be counting what he calls "moving parts". I can see how this might refer to things that run while you're awake and using the computer as opposed to while you're brushing your teeth before bed. Milliseconds repeated throughout the day add up to seconds and minutes of actual work time. --Tepples (talk) 21:34, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That's in reference to hosts itself, I'm talking about APK's program. As I can see this will get confusing I'm moving this part of the topic down to "APK's program is worth using". Feel free to clean this part up as you wish. --DK
 * You are, to be blunt about it, TALKING OUT YOUR ASS then & repeatedly - see above as proof thereof! EVERY SINGLE SO-CALLED 'POINT' OF YOURS HAS BEEN EASILY REFUTED AND SOME OF YOUR 'POINTS' ARE OUTRIGHT LIES. ANYONE IS FREE TO READ MY REPLIES AND DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES. --APK


 * The hosts file is processed in the IP stack, which starts before your browser and certainly before any browser extensions.
 * That's nice... but if you're ad-blocking, why does that matter? (I get why this is a point technically, but practically it's irrelevant) --DK
 * It matters since IT IS BETTER on many fronts (AND IT IS NOT DETECTABLE & BLOCKABLE BY CLARITYRAY which all browser addons are NULLIFYING THEM) using what you already have vs. illogically & stupidly "bolting on 'MoAr'" which fools do using more cpu, ram, & other forms of I/O + adding complexity & more moving parts and room for breakdown instead of using what you already have natively in hosts that does more, more efficiently (by far on BOTH counts). FACT YOU CANNOT DISPROVE VALIDLY & TECHNICALLY: HOSTS DO FAR MORE FOR ADDED SPEED, SECURITY, RELIABILITY, AND ANONYMITY ONLINE THAN ADDONS DO, PERIOD - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER... apk


 * Adblock Plus uses 65 MB or more of RAM.
 * More like 128 to 151 MB. Two pages on ghacks confirm it: Adblocker memory consumption | Improved in Firefox 41 but still 65 MB --APK
 * uBlock is much better and preferred now (now imitating hosts by using hosts data but unable to do DNS issues avoidance like hosts can eating far more cpu, ram, & other forms of I/O + easily detected by clarityray for blocking it, as well as being inferior in abilities vs. hosts).. -amimojo
 * uBLOCK USES MORE RESOURCES IN RAM TOO - NO WAY AROUND IT - VS. HOSTS & I'VE CONTINUOUSLY PROVIDED PROOFS OF THAT TOO + UBLOCK OPERATES IN LESS CPU SERVICED USERMODE WITH MORE MESSAGEPASSING OVERHEADS AS WELL AND COMPLEXITY (ESPECIALLY IN REGEX BASED RULESETS WHICH MOST USERS WON'T UNDERSTAND VS. HOSTS EASILY UNDERSTOOD 2 COLUMN FORMAT WHICH IS LIKE PHONE #, PERSON'S NAME EASY!) --APK

Cross-platform

 * A hosts file works on any platform with a web browser.
 * Not without root. Video game consoles have a web browser, as do unrooted iOS and Android devices, but they don't have an accessible host file. On the other hand, most of them don't have browser extensions either apart from Firefox for Android, so it's kind of a wash. --Tepples (talk) 20:17, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Game consoles are mere TOYS first of all - Rooted phones are easily obtained & I've used ADB (android debugging bridge) to transfer hosts files to them (other phones have tools that are analogous for it). You can go play with your toys instead of telling 1/2 truths here as you have been (especially on 'default settings'). Go play with your toys please. Quit your 1/2 truths here (like your 'default settings' on my program which DO NOT EXIST but they DO on almostALLAdsBlocked, now don't they? Yes) --APK


 * On platforms like smart TVs it is the only option (loaded on the router). You can use it on Android without root with a proxy based blocker/firewall app. -amimojo
 * 'Smartphones' are actually DUMBPHONES due to all the exploits occurring on them for oh, a decade or more now. If I did deal with them, you'd see me building apps for them. --APK


 * Easy data control
 * The file format is easy even for a novice to understand. And APK pointed out that the administrator of a home or small office network of PCs can sync hosts from a server through login scripts,  jobs, or Windows Task Scheduler jobs. --Tepples (talk) 00:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, another Anonymous Coward pointed out that it's just as easy to blacklist sites on a DNS server built into a home or small office router appliance. --Tepples (talk) 03:55, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Say I have a computer with two user accounts on it. Say I have a roommate who uses Facebook on her user account, but I want to block all access to Facebook, including tracking through its Like button script, while I'm logged in to my user account. With browser extensions, I could have it block  and   only for processes run under my user account. Is that a job for login scripts? --Tepples (talk) 21:19, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * FAR FROM IT, the rules formats are FAR MORE COMPLEX in DNS, whereas by way of comparison, hosts is two columns (address/blocking address+space+hostname) and even MORESO vs. addon regular expressions/regex use which MOST non-techie users won't understand how to edit, whereas by way of comparison, hosts are just like phonebook entries in phone number+space+name in two columns easy - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * Hosts files protect applications other than your primary web browser.
 * Hey, this would have been worth talking about! The transition of Windows away from programs to a phone-like "app" model through Windows 8 and 10 does mean that a way of blocking everything, including tracking servers and ads in other software is a big plus, and will probably only get bigger (probably router / firewall-based, imho). Adblock+ has a version on Android which works on everything, and it improves the experience of so many different programs. As it is this gem of a point got lost in the crap. --DK
 * NOBODY IS BUYING INTO WINDOWS VISTA ONWARD (finding them flawed, tracking you like mad unwantedly, & to the POINT ms is forcing win10 on users hidden in Windows update - that tell you anything? It does me... your point is moot). --APK
 * Your bs doesn't avoid the fact it is TRUE SINCE HOSTS ARE PART OF THE ip STACK BY DEFAULT. ROUTERS GET BUSHWHACKED ALL THE TIME FOR YEARS NOW MASSIVELY, HOSTS WHILE PROTECTED BY MY PROGRAM DO NOT AND REFRESHING HOSTS USING MY PROGRAM, EVEN IF YOU COULD BLOW BY WFP/SFP IN WINDOWS OR BETTER YET HOW MY PROGRAM PROTECTS HOSTS VS. CORRUPTION BEYOND THAT (IT'S NOT POSSIBLE IN USERMODE, I'VE TRIED) - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * Adblock Plus adds complexity in user mode, increasing the number of context switches in and out of kernel mode, compared to hosts.
 * Disagree. In theory, a browser extension can handle a request entirely in the browser, without switching out to the kernel's IP stack at all. --Tepples (talk) 23:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Hosts are in kernelmode, browser addons are in usermode LAYERED OVER ALREADY LESS CPU SERVICED USERMODE BROWSERS - right there you lose by default in the ring of privelege if not refinement & efficiency the IP stack of which hosts are a native part operate in (many, Many, MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE SO in FAVOR OF HOSTS tepples). Hosts cached in RAM, operating WELL BEFORE addons do, make them redundant and there's NO QUESTION addons are less efficient. --APK
 * Tell you what Tepples, as a test - build a "hello world" program in GUI first. Then do it in charactermode/tty term/DOS mode - measure which uses less AND WHICH IS FASTER (tty/character mode/DOS mode is FAR faster, less overheads by FAR!). NOW, mind you: That's only the start since in KERNELMODE/Ring 0/RPL 0, the increase of DOS mode vs. GUI only increases ALL THE MORE in kernelmode by far in speed + efficiency AND CPU servicing! Try it, you'll see - I did... apk


 * Technical workings are OK to argus, but if the end result is the same the question is "So what?" --DK
 * A CAR THAT GETS 100 MILES TO THE GALLON AND HAS 1,000 HORSEPOWER TOO IS BETTER THAN A CAR THAT GETS 8 MILES TO THE GALLON WITH ONLY 10 HORSEPOWER BY ANALOSY. FACT - browser addons INCREASE messagepassing overheads, cpu & ram use in browser AND ABOVE ALL ELSE OPERATE IN USERMODE (less cpu serviced vs. hosts in kernelmode... many, Many, MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE SO in favor of hosts on all those levels noted) - AND HOSTS IS NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * Adblock Plus is slower than a hosts file.
 * Answers to Which leads to faster browsing, an ad blocker or an edited hosts file? by jjlin, March Ho, and others prove it out. --apk
 * There's plenty of conjecture and anecdotes there, not all for and precisely no data to "prove" anything. Anecdotally for me it's about even either way - if one is slower than the other it isn't noticeable. --DK
 * YET YOU HAVE NOTHING SHOWING OTHERWISE FROM REPUTABLE SOURCES WHICH PREDATE THIS DO YOU? NOPE! WHEREAS I DO VS. DOUBLETALK HOTAIR BS & 1/2 TRUTHS OR LIES FROM YOU SHOWN ABOVE... apk
 * Perhaps someone needs to run benchmarks. Install Windows and a few extensions.


 * APK EDIT: Perhaps someone (you) needs to realize it's already been noted by others many times online - Here's a case in point example thereof -> [ www.quora.com/Do-Add-ons-slow-down-Firefox]& quote from it: "When add-ons cause a noticeable slow down in Firefox, it's usually as a result of one very slow add-on or having a large number of add-ons enabled."

Other

 * The anti-ad-blocking ClarityRay service, acquired by Yahoo!, defeats Adblock Plus but not hosts files.
 * One thing that could defeat a hosts file is hosting ads on the same hostname as something important that isn't ads. But APK points out that advertisers are reluctant to advertise directly on a publisher's site, rather than through an ad network, because publishers can't be trusted to provide accurate impression and click data. --Tepples (talk) 01:23, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Hosts can be defeated by the same techniques as AdBlock, e.g. checking if content actually loaded or ad severs are reachable in JavaScript. -amimojo
 * ClarityRAY defeats ANY & ALL INEFFICIENT + REDUNDANT BROWSER ADDONS effectively NULLIFYING THEM - that alone makes their usage illogical - they won't work. This can't be done to hosts as it is NOT A BROWSER ADDON! --APK
 * But are self-hosted ads any less trustworthy than Google AdWords, which SpiderOak found fraudulent in 2015? --Tepples (talk) 17:21, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * AGAIN (why do i HAVE TO KEEP REPEATING MYSELF HERE VS. YOUR REPEATED ALREADY DEFEATED/DISPROVEN SO-CALLED 'POINTS'?) - ADVERTISERS DO NOT TRUST WEBMASTERS ALLEGED VIEW/CLICK HITCOUNTS ON ADS IF POSTED ON SAME SERVERS AS THE SITE WHICH IS WHY YOU DON'T SEE THEM. A WEBMASTER CAN REPORT ANYTHING HE LIKES THEN. ADVERTISERS WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE. THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T SEE ADS SERVED ON THE SAME SITE MUCH IF AT ALL. --APK


 * How does ClarityRay work, and is it actually in use anywhere? I ask because a) I can't find anything on how it works (but my google-fu may just be failing me in this instance) and b) My browser with uBlock isn't being "defeated" anywhere, not even on Yahoo's pages (Yahoo acquired ClarityRay in 2014). Without knowing either of these I can only say it's not affecting me. --DK
 * CLARITYRAY IS USED BY MANY SITES AND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW BY HOW MANY? ASK THEM YOURSELF. I'M SURE THEY'D BE PROUD TO DIVULGE IT AS IT IS A SELLING POINT FOR THEM & THEY'RE OUT TO MAKE MONEY! CLARITYRAY uses NATIVE BROWSER METHODS TO DETECT INEFFICIENT REDUNDANT INFERIOR BROWSER ADDONS which it cannot do to hosts as hosts is not operating via your browser but instead in your IP stack @ far lower faster/more cpu serviced levels (even more efficiently than firewalls do in parts used - firewalls need layered filtering drivers, hosts do not) - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * Adblock Plus is bribed not to work by default.
 * Articles show how ad networks pay for inclusion in an "acceptable ads" whitelist and Adblock Plus bought the original AdBlock. --APK
 * TRUTH FOR ONCE HERE FROM HOSTS' NAYSAYER DETRACTORS WHO @ BEST HERE ARE SPOUTING 1/2 TRUTHS OR OUTRIGHT LIES (AS IN 'DEFAULT SETTINGS' IN MY PROGRAM? i WONDER: HAVE THEY ACTUALLY USED IT? IT HAS NO SUCH SETTINGS AND POPULATES HOSTS VS ALL THAT IS LISTED ABOVE AND DOES MORE AND BETTER MORE EFFICIENTLY THAN ANY BROWSER ADDON THERE IS) - AMAZING THAT THE TRUTH WAS TOLD FOR ONCE HERE FROM THOSE DETRACTORS OF HOSTS ABOVE THOUGH. --APK
 * AlmostALLAdsBlocked HAS "DEFAULT SETTINGS" YOU RANT ON FALSELY that SHOW ADS for Google, Amazon, & Microsoft and probably others... AdBlock? It's TRULY "AlmostALLAdsBlocked" as I call it. --APK
 * It's a good thing that there are other addons available then, isn't it? --DK
 * EACH OF WHICH DOES LESS THAN HOSTS DO BY FAR AND LESS EFFICIENTLY AND THEY'RE NEEDLESS REDUNDANCY VS. HOSTS AS WELL AS INEFFICIENT, BLOATED, AND SOLD OUT IN ALMOSTALLADSBLOCKED AND GHOSTERY'S CASE and THEY ARE EASILY DEFEATED AND DETECTED BY NATIVE BROWSER METHODS TO DO SO which cannot be done to hosts since they are not part of your browser but operating at far lower faster/more cpu serviced more efficient & REFINED layers in ring 0/rpl 0/kernelmode vs. addons in slower less efficient usermode (and they're new, have bugs @ times etc. vs. the Ip stack having decades of refinement) - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK


 * In 2015, the web advertising industry acknowledged that it had overreached with video ads that hog the viewer's processor and monthly data allowance. As for the rest of ads, the ad men don't fear occasional ad blocking, especially by a small group of users, as much as the rise of popular user agents that block all ads by default.[ref]Lauren Weinstein. "You'll Probably Hate this Posting about Ad Blockers and Ad Blocking". 2015-09-19. Accessed 2015-12-31.[/ref] --Tepples (talk) 21:19, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Aside from using other adblocking extensions, Adblock plus can, of course, disable the "acceptable" ads whitelist via a single checkbox in its options. APK has consistently mentioned that this is no good - that people won't change the defaults - fine then, that works against APK in the end... --DK
 * OK, easily disproven by a "noted expert" whom you are FREE to address: EVEN LAUREN WEINSTEIN TECHNOLOGIST ABOVE STATES MOST USERS WON'T CHANGE ALMOSTALLADSBLOCKED'S DEFAULT SOLD OUT CRIPPLED SETTINGS AND SAYS ADVERTISERS NOTE IT. HE'S A TECHNOLOGIST BY THE WAY. Tepples was made aware of this demanding proof of it from me, ask him... apk

Specific hosts managers

 * APK Hosts File Engine is worth using.
 * An employee of MalwareBytes recommends it. --apk
 * Many people disagree; the program itself is slow, takes up a large amount of CPU and time to generate the hosts file, uses unclear and non-standard language, is unfriendly to use, does not utilize multi-core CPU's. All to do something which would be much more efficient to do server-side. TL:DR of the below: hostsman is much faster (other programs are available, but I haven't used those). --DK
 * After the trolling OR EDITS OF MY REPLIES BEING DONE REMOVING THEM (which Tepples knows has happened not only from himself but yes others as well in trolls) and what happens (same basic trolling to me when they can't validly technically disprove my enumerated list above) those "many users" of yours are, I suspect, paid off shills from inferior competitors, advertisers, webmasters (all losing users or adviews vs. hosts, even PAYING OFF ADBLOCK & GHOSTERY which says it all pretty much to not operate as they used to to let ads in OR gain information from users use patterns in tracking vs. ads)... after all - they're inferior, redundant, inefficient AND SOULED-OUT to advertisers (proof in & of itself). Whose "money tree" is being shaken? Advertisers & webmasters, and sold out browser addons... malware makers, lastly possibly, but I sincerely believe they could care less... they just MAKE MORE bad sites for users to block in hosts (which addons don't DO nearly as well if at all, period). --APK
 * THE GENERATION OF HOSTS ONLY TAKES MINUTES. IT'S NOT CONSTANT. ADDONS USAGE IS CONSTANT AND IS INDEED INEFFICIENT, REDUNDANT, AND INFERIOR IN ABILITIES AND ADDS COMPLEXITY NEEDLESSLY VS. HOSTS WHICH YOU HAVE ALREADY NATIVELY - AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER! --APK
 * This confirms my analogy to cheap vs. expensive power. You generate the hosts file while eating breakfast, and you use it all day. --Tepples (talk) 01:20, 8 January 2016 (UTC)


 * To add some more to the above comment (some of which will change as I continue looking at APK's program):
 * APK's program is only user friendly if you want to use the exact lists APK has chosen, and effectively follow things exactly as APK wants you to do them.


 * UNTRUE AND A COMPLETELY ARBITRARY RELATIVE 'POINT' FROM YOU, A NAYSAYER/DETRACTOR WHO USES PROVEN BY REPUTABLE SOURCES INFERIOR BROWSER ADDONS THAT DON'T DO AS MUCH FOR ADDED SPEED, SECURITY, RELIABILITY, & ANONYMITY THAT HOSTS DO FOR FAR LESS RESOURCES CONSUMMATION (IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER) VS. INFERIOR REDUNDANT INEFFICIENT BROWSER ADDONS. --APK


 * For some reason APK uses the hpHosts Adblock file, not the full protection-offering hosts file.


 * APK EDIT: I use their updates files since they're more current (what really matters since hosts that are bad get sinkholed/shutdown in months time & hpHosts FULL file has false positives @ TIMES, hence their removal lists, & my programs filters their personnel helped me build do the rest for them AND other sources too vs. erroneous data in hosts on many levels).


 * There are 2 ways to use this program (like how AntiVirus programs work actually) enumerated below in #1 & #2:
 * 1.) "HIGH POWER" protection (albeit merging in manually your OWN hosts files or using full lists from sites which may have data that's out of date or false positives (my sources do removal lists, see hpHosts as such as example) -OR-
 * 2.) CURRENT UPDATE DATA ONLY MODE: WHICH, first, DOES NOT HAVE THOSE false positives found in my sources removal lists (my false positive filters in my program does the rest if they don't as added assurance here) and is current, which matters, as those threats DO CURRENTLY EXIST. This keeps the hosts files smaller and faster. You can, however/again, merge in your OWN hosts data or that of OTHER SOURCES (2 ways, manually adding them to your custom hosts file, OR editing the BUILDFILES.TXT adding in data you wish to use in addition to that from my security community sources - this latter method is more-or-less analogous to what antivirus programs have in "HIGH POWER" FULL MODE vs. normal mode) - lastly, hosts are EASILY MANUALLY EDITED (far easier for less saavy end users than regex edits which addons use - users think those are for all intents & purposes, Chinese to them and UNINTELLIGIBLE vs. hosts easily understood 2 column format which is like phone number+space+name of person as an analogous comparison).
 * MY PROGRAM USES THAT AND 9 OTHER REPUTABLE SOURCES (ALL OPTIONAL AS WELL, CHOOSE ONES YOU LIKE AND USE THOSE ONLY IF YOU WISH). YOU CAN MERGE OTHER SOURCES NOT USED BY THE PROGRAM EASILY (DIRECTIONS HOW ARE THERE AND THERE ARE A COUPLE EASY WAYS TO DO SO). --APK


 * in order to change the lists use you need to edit an ini file. Hostsman (as a hosts manager example) has a section to add and remove hosts lists within the main interface, and allows you to check the validity of the entered list. --DK
 * IS THAT "TOO MUCH" FOR YOU? The PROGRAM ITSELF PROVIDES MENUS FOR EDITING IT using notepad.exe - Then, YOU CAN MERGE IN OTHER FILES EASILY BY ADDING THEIR NAME TO THE BUILDFILES.TXT OR JUST MANUALLY ADD THEM TO FINALHOSTS.TXT & RE-RUN THE PROGRAM (NOT EVEN HAVING TO DO THE CONVERT AND FILTER ONLY SORTING ASSUMING NEW FILES ADDED ARE CLEAN VS. FALSE POSITIVES WHICH MY PROGRAM FILTERS AND THERE ARE NEARLY 7,500 OF THOSE).--APK


 * The program is slow, and cannot scale to larger hosts files.
 * IT WORKS and I am about ACCURACY MORE THAN SPEED & IT SCALES TO NEARLY 4++ MILLION LINE HOSTS HOSTS for me here testing! After years of testing and how I have it set up? I believe there is NO LIMITS IN FACT AS TO HOW BIG i CAN MAKE HOSTS IF THE SLOWER USERMODE INEFFICIENT STUPIDLY DESIGNED FIXED SIZE USERMODE SLOWER DNSCACHE IS IN WINDOWS (turning it off saves cpu cycles, ram, & other io wasted on it in fact speeding you up more & lessening resource abuse on a faulty with larger hosts files service). --APK


 * While trying to tweak APK's program to use the full hpHosts list the program appears to stall at the "convert and filter" stage - on try number 1 (after altering the .ini file) I force-closed the program at the 3 hour mark. On try number 2 (forgoing the hphosts file obtained by the program, and copy/pasting the entries from a downloaded version of the hpHosts file) I force-closed the program down at the two hour mark. At that sort of time, it will take *years* to claw back any efficiency savings measured in milliseconds (compared to browser extensions) --DK


 * IT IS NOT STALLED - THE PROGRAM RUNS AN HOURGLASS CURSOR AND TELLS YOU IT IS WORKING - CAN'T YOU READ? RUNS TAKE 10-15 MINUTES, LESS TIME THAN A DISK DEFRAG TYPICALLY. I am about ACCURACY over speed. Going fast means nothing if the output results are not correct!
 * It'd be better if it had a progress bar showing how far along it is in creating the file.


 * APK EDIT: IT DOES HAVE A PROGRESS BAR THAT MOVES DURING "Convert & Filter" stage (not during deduplicate though, that's generally fast using a stringlist to do its work which is NOT a graphical construct and a built-in method of the stringlist itself, again - not a GUI but an object with a native method & non-visible!)... & it also has a progress bar on data intake also. Both are accurate.


 * Try number 3 (creating the file, then adding it in at the "load file" point), it worked - after 5 hours! While the program noted that large lists take longer to generate (up to 48 hours for a million+ entry hosts file) the requirement for the warning in the first place suggests the program is flawed when dealing with large data sets. --DK


 * APK EDIT: 5 HOURS? What KIND of a piece of JUNK were you running it on?? I can deduplicate 4++ million records using the program in under 30 minutes using a Core I7 4790k & slightly more (45 minutes) on an older Core I7 920!


 * APK EDIT:USING THE DEFAULT DATASETS in its .ini file I can do the entire dataset WITH CONVERT & FILTER (longest part but VERY ACCURATE & that is what this SHOULD BE ABOUT - accuracy vs. false positives AND formatting of the data for utmost load speeds vs. threats online) IT ONLY TAKES ME 10++ minutes tops!


 * APK EDIT: WITH hpHosts FULL DATASET (+ updates along with it also AND all others imported, deduplication only takes 1 minute) THAT ONLY TAKES ME ~75 minutes & WITH CONVERT & FILTER -> SPEEDUP FAVORITE SITES -> SAVE HOSTS... 75++ MINUTES/1 hr. 15 minutes., TOPS!


 * APK EDIT: I use an Intel Core I7 4790k CPU (the process is string processing & it's VERY cpu intensive) to get that rate of processing time/speed, & on my older Intel Core I7 920 (from 2010 iirc) it only takes 1.5 hours TOPS!


 * APK EDIT: YOU NEED A NEW MACHINE (because it sounds like you're running on a single-core OLD outdated SLOW SYSTEM, imo, intentionally - well, again: Quake 4 would be SLOW on an 8088 cpu too from 1985).


 * APK EDIT: The program does "filter & convert" stage @ a rate of roughly 70,000 records a minute also.


 * APK EDIT: IT ALSO TOOK ME 17++ YEARS TO BUILD UP TO THAT NUMBER (4++ million or so). Unless you have data that size (only 1 hostfile out there that big, bigger than mine in fact), it won't take more than 2 hours on a decent machine OVER 4++ MILLION RECORDS to deduplicate (after all - Quake 4 would be slow on an 8088 too!).


 * APK EDIT: Clearly YOU NEED A FASTER multicore SYSTEM THEN & YOU ARE NOT HEEDING ITS WARNING ON LARGE HOSTS IN CONVERT AND FILTER STAGE!
 * APK EDIT: (HOWEVER, as YOU yourself admit? IT WORKS NONETHELESS!)


 * APK EDIT: Still, EVEN ON THOSE "EXTRA-LARGE" datasets it works BUT ONCE YOU DO "convert & filter" ONCE? IT'S DONE. NO NEED TO DO THAT AGAIN to that OLDER already filtered data you already had!


 * APK EDIT: The "convert & filter" stage you do to newly imported data ONLY & it only takes 10-20 minutes depending on your CPU speed for roughly 250,000++ records or so typically as a daily FULL intake (& you check the sites FIRST using the CONFIG screen to see they have in fact, updated vs. the last time you did it).


 * APK EDIT: You then merge the new data with the old already CLEAN DATA, WHICH I REPEAT: HAS NO NEED TO RECONVERT/REFILTER IT!


 * APK EDIT: (Should you choose to build up the hosts file data vs. using only CURRENT data - just reload it using "LOAD ANOTHER FILE" once you paste them together manually using a text editor beforehand (my program summons notepad.exe to do so if needed) & it will sort them and deduplicate them OR wait until "BUILD YOUR HOSTS FILE" screen and alter the BUILDFILES.TXT to add your already existing (hopefully filtered) hosts file.


 * APK EDIT: Either way, it works (I have found that busting the file up into many parts helps speed up the process & concatenating them later, but that's up to you IF you have HUGE hosts files (they tend to be full of STALE data though or false positives or sites that have either been shutdown since they're known bad, or cleaned up if a false positive).


 * APK EDIT: Lastly/Again - THE DATA YOU IMPORT IS NOT THAT LARGE USING MY PROGRAM (UPDATES DATA WHICH IS CURRENT AND MOST IMPORTANT SINCE MANY THREATS GET SINKHOLED IN TIME MEANING THEY ARE SHUT DOWN AND NO LONGER IN USE).


 * APK EDIT: THAT IS HOW I USE TO USE IT THAT WAY AND WHY...


 * APK EDIT: YOU CAN, CONVERSELY, BUILD A LARGER HOSTS FILE WHICH I AM DOING TO THE TUNE OF 4 MILLION ENTRIES (TO TEST TO SEE HOW BIG I CAN PERSONALLY MAKE HOSTS SEEING IF THERE IS A LIMIT AND SO FAR THERE IS NONE UNLESS THE FAULTY WITH LARGE HOSTS FILES DNSCACHE IN SLOWER USERMODE IS LEFT RUNNING BUT MY PROGRAM WARNS YOU OF THAT, KEEPING YOU IN PURE KERNELMODE FASTER OPERATIONS COMBINING HOSTS WITH THE ALSO KERNELMODE DISKCACHING SUBSYSTEM IN LIEU OF THE FAULTY MICROSOFT WINDOWS DNSCACHE SERVICE, SAVING CPU CYCLES, RAM, & OTHER IO WASTED ON IT SINCE IT'S FAULTY FIXED SIZED DATASTRUCTURE DESIGNED) --APK


 * Even when using the program as intended it takes over 20 minutes, using 1 CPU core at 100% while doing so. That takes away a *lot* of the efficiency benefits of using a hosts file in the first place!


 * APK EDIT:USING THE DEFAULT DATASETS in its .ini file I can do the entire dataset WITH CONVERT & FILTER (longest part but VERY ACCURATE & that is what this SHOULD BE ABOUT - accuracy vs. false positives AND formatting of the data for utmost load speeds vs. threats online) IT ONLY TAKES ME 10++ minutes tops - WITH hpHosts FULL DATASET (and updates along with it, deduplication only takes 1 minute) THAT ONLY TAKES ME 15 minutes & WITH CONVERT & FILTER -> SPEEDUP FAVORITE SITES -> SAVE HOSTS... 75 MINUTES/1 hr. 15 minutes, TOPS! I use an Intel Core I7 4790k CPU (the process is string processing & it's VERY cpu intensive) to get that rate of processing time/speed, & on my older Intel Core I7 920 (from 2010 iirc) it only takes 1.5++ hours TOPS!


 * APK EDIT: Diskdefrags OR AntiVirus scans take longer & You don't do that ALL THE TIME - see above!
 * APK EDIT: (The slowest part in Filter/Convert BUT IT IS ACCURATE TO A FAULT!)


 * APK EDIT: Plus, the folks @ SuperUser.com found hosts FAR FASTER for adblocking alone (nevermind hosts secure you vs. far more) than AlmostALLAdsBlocked which would be the same on speed benefits for any browser addon...


 * APK EDIT: That's verifiable fact!


 * APK EDIT: Ask if you need validation from THAT source or any others regarding my statements (which tepples can also verify, as he has demanded such proofs from me on the other pages for this debate).


 * APK EDIT: Anything I say has backing from reputable sources in the art & science of computing (not that I need them - I am one myself as a professional network admin/tech/programmer-analyst/software engineer since 1994 & programming since 1982 in multiple languages on multiple platforms ranging from mainframes & midranges to client server pc designs). --APK


 * TO TEPPLES - THIS IS ONE OF THE FAULTS IN WINDOWS I WOULD CORRECT @ MS along with reinstating the smaller faster to parse & initially load 0 blocking ip address which even Microsoft's former VP of the "windows client performance division" agreed I was correct on HERE [slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1467692&cid=30384918] (ALONG WITH YOUR BLOOM FILTER IDEA). --APK


 * For comparison, Hostsman takes a few seconds to generate a hosts file of 14MB from 7 different sources (including as many as the ones APK uses that I could get working in 5 minutes, including the full hpHosts file) --DK


 * APK EDIT: Seeing as you jumped from inferior redundant bloated addons now and can't validly technically disprove my list above NOW using hostsman? Here are things MY hosts program does which are valuable for more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity hostsman CANNOT do:


 * APK EDIT: HOSTSMAN DOES NOT DO OR HAVE THE FOLLOWING ABILITIES:


 * 1.) REVERSE DNS VERIFY Y0UR FAVORITES FOR PLACING THEM AT THE TOP OF HOSTS FOR MORE SPEED AND RELIABILITY VS. DNS SECURITY ISSUES + TRACKING @ DNS LEVELS (dns request logs).
 * 2.) USES A DATABASE ENGINE WHICH MAY, OR MAY NOT, BE IN BUSINESS ONE DAY. MY PROGRAM DOES IT ALL BY ITSELF IN 1 SINGLE PART AND IN 64 BIT ALSO NATIVELY (HOSTSMAN DOES NOT HAVE A 64-BIT MODEL EITHER).
 * 3.) If SQLite (the db engine hostsman uses not having written the code for this themselves and regex complexity there too afaik) develops a fault or bug? It's stuck until updates issue meaning they have to reissue (IF it can be fixed that is).
 * 4.) It seems as if HostsMan does NOT perform filtering vs. false positives (does it, & does it do it for roughly 7,500 false positives? Sources for hosts data do so as well, hence their false positives or removals lists such as hpHosts does along with others) as far as I can tell, which again, seems to aid its speed (but accuracy is in question)
 * My program HAS NO SUCH DEPENDENCIES & operates on its own completely in 1 moving executable part to populate hosts (the REAL bottom line & effective part that is KERNELMODE FAST & EFFICIENT operating as part of the IP stack itself which has decades of refinement on all fronts, addons do not) with no dependencies on 3rd parties, only OS API's and nothing more. Efficiency in more moving parts is NOT efficient. It's room for exploit & breakdown! --APK


 * By default, the addition of favored site IP addresses to the hosts file is controlled by a separate text file, in order to add any of your favoured sites you need to edit the text file manually. APK's program tells you this in the readme section, but neglects to tell you that the file is (for some reason)  --DK


 * APK EDIT: LEARN TO READ: My program APPLIES WRITE PROTECTION to hosts, and its installation files are write protected vs. alteration by malware & USE RIGHTCLICK MENUS WHICH ITS TOOLTIPS EVEN TELL YOU TO USE + ITS STATUS BARS WHEN HOVERING OVER THE FAVORITES SCREEN! The main menus above have facilities to edit/add favorite sites as do the rightclick popup menus on the speedup favorite sites screen - you fail AGAIN... apk


 * APK EDIT: ALSO - THE OS TELLS YOU AND IF IT DOES, CHANGE THE FILE ATTRIBUTES... OR IS THAT TOO MUCH FOR YOU?


 * APK EDIT: My program if set to run as admin (DOES NOT HAVE TO BE & THIS LESSENS ITS CPU USE IF THAT BUGS YOU since non-admin users cannot summon REALTIME cpu priority mind you) will overwrite hosts in its default location AND otherwise if redirected (as it correctly uses the registry location for it IF hosts is redirected by you, which I do myself, to a ramdisk for more speed of load & less latency).--APK


 * The "so what?" here is that APK argues that Adblock plus's Ad whitelist is bad, because people won't alter the defaults. If you accept this premise, then the same applies to APK's program, invalidating a number of stated benefits of hosts files. --DK


 * APK EDIT: Already stated & backed by tepples quoting my data from Slashdot above): OK, easily disproven by a "noted expert" whom you are FREE to address: EVEN LAUREN WEINSTEIN TECHNOLOGIST ABOVE STATES MOST USERS WON'T CHANGE ALMOSTALLADSBLOCKED'S DEFAULT SOLD OUT CRIPPLED SETTINGS AND SAYS ADVERTISERS NOTE IT. HE'S A TECHNOLOGIST BY THE WAY. Tepples was made aware of this demanding proof of it from me, ask him... apk


 * APK EDIT: Excuse me? HOW ON EARTH CAN UBlock/Ghostery/AlmostALLAdsBlocked NOT DOING AS MUCH AS HOSTS DO (see enumerated list above @ the start of this near the top) AND YET USING MORE RESOURCES = "better" AND how does that INVALIDATE those listed benefits?
 * Clue - it doesn't... that's stupidity to say that from you to be blunt about it but IT DOES PROJECT YOU KNOW HOSTS FILES DO A LOT MORE THAN ADDONS DO & FOR CONSIDERABLY LESS (orders of magnitude so).


 * APK EDIT: The DEFAULT SITES it uses are already filtered vs. false positives (especially the update ones from hpHosts, the FULL LIST has false positives which is what hpHosts' removal lists are for - part of which my false positives filter filters against as well in my program IF you choose to use the FULL model there - however, the full list may also contain STALE OUT OF DATE sites which the removal lists @ hpHosts list too - hence, using the defaults (all full files EXCEPT hpHosts) & you get ABSOLUTELY CURRENT DATA vs. threats of many kinds online that way!) - use the hpHosts manually & merge it IF you wish, but be aware of the risk noted (which my filters vs. false positives SHOULD clear most of)... apk


 * I get the theory behind many part of the Unix/Linux philosophy (settings in text files which the program processes and operates accordingly, and can be automatically scheduled via task manager / cron), and I get the usefulness of GUI-based programs, especially for people used to Windows, but this program does seem to use the worst of both worlds - requiring editing of text files if you want it to operate with all of the "15 things hosts files can do", but still requiring it's hand to be held all the way through the GUI. --DK


 * APK EDIT: AGAIN, COMPLETELY ARBITRARY 'HIDDEN AGENDA' BS FROM AN INFERIOR ADDONS FAN - QUESTION: IS YOUR FAVORITE COLOR TRANSPARENT? I CAN SEE RIGHT THRU YOU AND SO CAN OTHERS SIMPLY BY READING MY REPLIES THAT SHUT YOURS DOWN EASILY ABOVE.


 * APK EDIT: REPEAT - My program does NOT 'stall' on other data files, they're larger & because they are, they take more time (but out of date which is the point you are missing, with possible false positives or ones that were cleaned up - hence, hpHosts' removal lists which YOU fail to note (why's that? I know why!)). --apk
 * Just a general point about performance, if it takes an i7 half an hour to de-dupe 4 million records, it's not very efficient. APK, can you confirm what algo you are using? Performance seems to be a concern, perhaps we can suggest ways to improve it. --amimojo


 * APK EDIT: It uses a stringlist object with its native method for deduplication - I don't use OTHERS' CODE like say, hostsman does, using the SQLite database engine & dependences on it (I did the work myself) - The sort for deduplication is a QUICKSORT (generically good for both small to large datasets). Is there faster ones for large datasets? WORRY ABOUT THAT 20 years from NOW when you have built one up to that size - you're lucky to have 250k at the start and it took me nearly 20 years to get to a 4 million line sized hosts file (almost) here... Lastly: have YOU written a better tool yourself? Has even hostsman (who at least tried)?? No to both. It's SO EASY to be a "critic" but you're NEVER THE COOK... apk


 * uBlock Origin allows the use of hosts files
 * Malware Domains is enabled by default. MVPS, SomeoneWhoCares and hpHosts can be enabled through options. Url's for other lists (in .txt format) can be manually added.
 * I decided to add this here, rather than use the same text for each item. If the use of hosts files can be proven to help block ads and malware while browsing, then the same can be done using uBlock Origin, as it can use exactly the same hosts files. --DK


 * APK EDIT: "IMITATION IS THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY" is all I can say, AND IT PROVES MY POINT THAT EVEN BROWSER ADDON MAKERS in uBlock SEE THE VALUE OF HOSTS FILES (thank you)... uBlock can't touch a thing in my enumerated list above regarding DNS issues hosts correct, nor can it hardcode speed up your favorite sites access and based on what you say, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" (& despite your critique I don't see you creating better work than my own - it's easy to be a critic, quite another to be the cook) AND UBLOCK DOESN'T USE AS MANY SOURCES FOR HOSTS FILE DATA EITHER - so it's blocking won't be as thorough using hosts file data (which again means "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery").


 * APK EDIT: WHAT I FIND UTTERLY HILARIOUS WAS 4 THINGS: Nobody can validly technically disprove my points on hosts superiority (AND IT'S NOT DETECTABLE & MADE USELESS by ClarityRay WHICH DEFEATS/NULLIFIES ANY BROWSER ADDON ADBLOCKER) to browser addons and even dns (even routers above) and when they try?
 * The results, consolidated, ARE above in black & white!


 * APK EDIT: LASTLY the TROLLING AND DELETING OF MY POSTS WHICH TEPPLES HAD TO CORRECT, WHICH PROVES TROLLS AND NAYSAYERS ARE FRUSTRATED INTO THEIR ANTICS SO I HAVE SAVED THIS MYSELF IN CASE OF SUCH OCCURENCES AND CAN REPASTE IT MYSELF AGAIN EASILY EVEN IF TEPPLES DOESN'T (Which supplements what tepples and I have seen already earlier in this discussion where they edited out my valid technical rebuttals, trolled me, etc. as they do on /. when I easily defeat them as I have again, here) - however, & perhaps above ALL else? It's easy to be a critic, not easy to be the chef (& I don't see my critics in amijo or DK building anything better themselves)... apk


 * APK Hosts File Engine isn't the only tool to make hosts files.


 * APK EDIT: No, it's not BUT IT'S THE BEST endorsed by the best in the antimalware industry Malwarebytes best man @ hpHosts - & it does MORE than inferior competitors like UBlock that imitates using hosts but doesn't use them FULLY either as my program + hosts itself does (UBlock's not a resolver, & can't speed you up with hardcoded favorites as my program does which also avoids DNS security issues too) - Even HostsMan, my closest competitor for hosts files programs DOES NOT HAVE A 64-bit model (thus, it creates 'emulation' overheads there since it's only 32-bit, & they use a Database SQLite which to be blunt about it, quoting Christian Bale from the film "The PRESTIGE"? "It takes NOTHING to steal another man's work..." - AND it like Ublock does NOTHING for speed gains using hardcoded favorite sites users use most either, losing out on speed & security + reliability gains inherent in their use). You fail... apk
 * Well, this turned into an APK crapfest pretty quickly. I'll add another question: Would hosts be worth using (perhaps along side ad blocking) if there was a better client app and it wasn't authored by APK?


 * APK EDIT: When ALL YOU HAVE is that kind of trolling bs? You have failed (& still again, see above on UBlock &/or Hostsman + their inferiorities vs. my progam).
 * If there were a complete specification for what APK Hosts File Engine does, I could probably write a functional equivalent myself in Python. --Tepples (talk) 22:30, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


 * APK EDIT: Heh, Tepples - see Christian Bale quote from the film "THE PRESTIGE" above first of all, & secondly? My nephew's already done such work in Python believe it or not, as far back as 2012 while he was @ RIT - he now works for Apple for the last 2-3 years now BUT he tried it - he had the GENERAL mechanics down (this all came @ my suggestion he try it to show me he was a competent coder - he came thru well) but the HARDEST PART OF ALL & LONGEST IN MY PROGRAM (which slows it down but it's NOT about speed so much as it is about ACCURATE DATA vs. False Positives you should NEVER block especially)? The filters vs. false positives - of the 27,000++ lines of fully error trapped code in my program, written in Delphi XE4 (targetting BOTH 32 & 64-bit)? More than HALF is that filter & IT IS IMPORTANT FOR ACCURACY + TO NOT UPSET USERS BLOCKING SITES THAT SHOULD NOT BE BLOCKED (e.g. www.google.com) - as long as you understand a process & data, you can program around it so you probably can do it as m nephew did (back then I had to show him Python error trapping etc. to improve it though & he lacked filtering completely, but he used REGEX & interpreted Python code in character mode only - regex is CPU + RAM BLOAT like mad - I use atomic string functions, pure & lighter by far) - so, trust me - THAT IS THE TOUGHEST LONGEST PART & it is a performance killer but necessary


 * APK EDIT (to Tepple for "posterities sake" & "patent pending" on my design work here too) Currently, I have a prototype working here that partitions HUGE datasets (above 300,000 lines in hosts) into 100 parts (THIS IS THE CODE THAT DOES IT, only part of my code I'll give up to 'everyone' is this & it optimized but no errtraps in it yet):

Function APK100SplitsEngine(InFile: System.TextFile, InFileName: ShortString): SmallInt; register; var SplitVarAmt : SmallInt; ModVarAmt  : SmallInt; APKSplit   : SmallInt; OutFile    : System.TextFile; OutFileName : ShortString; begin SplitVarAmt := Form1.NormalizeOutPutListBox.Items.Count div 100; ModVarAmt  := Form1.NormalizeOutPutListBox.Items.Count mod 100; System.AssignFile(InFile, InFileName); System.Reset(InFile); System.AssignFile(OutFile, OutFileName); System.Append(OutFile); APKSplit   := 0; For APKSplit:= 1 to 100 do begin if (FileExists(OutFileName)) and (FileExists(IntToStr(APKSplit) + InFileName + '.txt')) then begin while not EOF(InFile) do  begin Counter := Counter + 1; If Counter <= SplitVarAmt then begin System.ReadLn(InFile, RecordLine); System.WriteLn(OutFile, RecordLine); end; end; end; end; System.Flush(InFile); System.Close(InFile); System.Flush(OutFile); System.Close(OutFile); Application.ProcessMessages; Result     := 1; end;

It already QUADRUPLED its filter speed - & soon that will be on THREADS (some CreateThread API work) which will boost it that much yet again I predict - so far I process it linearly & it's 4x as fast there ALREADY, plus I've doubled the deduplication speed. That will be SR-5 (service release 5) sometime @ the end of next summer 2016, near fall as usual, with more false positives filters added also. I predict I will be PAID OFF BY GOOGLE/AMAZON/MICROSOFT as AdBlock was in fact once that hits the ground running (only reason I am releasing it is the "objection" I overcame above vs. hostsman - for LARGE data, I had to take the route I noted above & it works (only thing is, folks will take DECADES to get there & what really matters is hosts is not OLD STALE PAST DATA but CURRENT DATA since current threats are the most dangerous AND older ones get 'sinkholed' killed off w/in a couple months tops typically unless FASTFLUX driven usually those are TOUGHER to kill off for "the internet powers that be" since they are mobile essentially (I keep mine larger @ 3,847,630++ unique entries to test HOW LARGE I can make hosts before performance hits result - none have to date in testing since 1997 building it up to THAT huge size in fact)) Typical solid hosts files range around 200,000-250,000 lines & my current engine design YOU folks have available does the job FAST on an INTEL Core I7 920 older rig fully done in under 20 minutes, & on my latest INTEL Core I7 4790k it does it in 10-15 minutes tops (which DK's test above is like running Quake 4 on an 8088 - not only does he intentionally use a SLOW OLD SYSTEM, but the program is MULTITHREADED, for modern machines, not ANCIENT JUNK from 2004 or below - multithreaded code actually SLOWS DOWN ON single core antiquated junk too)


 * APK EDIT Tepples - this will outpace even HostsMan on the SINGLE THING it does faster - deduplication & I know it's inferior on filtering too (not as accurate, thus not as much slowup but WHERE IT MATTERS MOST is for ACCURACY WHICH IS PARAMOUNT vs. false positives) - MINUS depending on ANOTHER MAN'S WORK in SQLite as hostsman does (I do it myself using atomic string functions & PURE single exe multithreaded code that's portable) plus hostsman misses out on where users spend MOST TIME ONLINE, in hardcoded favorites placed @ TOP of hosts for fastest possible resolutions, that protects you vs downed or redirect poisoned DNS (both big problems in DNS) + makes your connections more reliable + FASTER... thus, with the upcoming model SR-5? THUS, I predict I will be PAID OFF by Google/Microsoft/Amazon once it hits the ground running, just as AlmostALLAdsBlocked was... apk